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	<title>Comments on: An Historic Election</title>
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	<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/</link>
	<description>The blog of the monthly conservative journal of UNC-Chapel Hill</description>
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		<title>By: ___0_</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2654</link>
		<dc:creator>___0_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2654</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t think the NJ election is very interesting or historic.  NJ voters didn&#039;t like Corzine before Obama got involved, and they didn&#039;t like him afterwards either.  Corzine is a scumbag and so is Christie. 
 
NY-23, however, is fascinating.  The Republicans had their asses handed to them after the lunatic fringe of the party decided the official GOP candidate wasn&#039;t conservative enough, and threw their support behind a doomed third-party candidate -- a man with palpably negative charisma, but one who would be devoted to the party line on abortion and gay rights. 
 
I think this scenario is likely to be repeated in other districts around the country, unless the party leaders can figure out a way to co-opt the energy of the teabagger / Palinite activists without handing them the keys.  I look forward to another year of right-wing infighting and hysteria. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#039;t think the NJ election is very interesting or historic.  NJ voters didn&#039;t like Corzine before Obama got involved, and they didn&#039;t like him afterwards either.  Corzine is a scumbag and so is Christie. </p>
<p>NY-23, however, is fascinating.  The Republicans had their asses handed to them after the lunatic fringe of the party decided the official GOP candidate wasn&#039;t conservative enough, and threw their support behind a doomed third-party candidate &#8212; a man with palpably negative charisma, but one who would be devoted to the party line on abortion and gay rights. </p>
<p>I think this scenario is likely to be repeated in other districts around the country, unless the party leaders can figure out a way to co-opt the energy of the teabagger / Palinite activists without handing them the keys.  I look forward to another year of right-wing infighting and hysteria.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Q</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2641</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2641</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;ll make this short and sweet: if you&#039;re going to focus on the Obama factor, then substantiate your claims with objective evidence.  The margin of victory is not evidence of the Obama factor.  Exit polls and polls in general are.  Use them to help you understand the Obama factor.  It doesn&#039;t matter how many speeches he gave, when he gave them, with whom he gave them, his rhetoric, or whatever.  What matters is why people voted against Corzine.  You are trying to build a correlation is causation fallacy and it doesn&#039;t work.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#039;ll make this short and sweet: if you&#039;re going to focus on the Obama factor, then substantiate your claims with objective evidence.  The margin of victory is not evidence of the Obama factor.  Exit polls and polls in general are.  Use them to help you understand the Obama factor.  It doesn&#039;t matter how many speeches he gave, when he gave them, with whom he gave them, his rhetoric, or whatever.  What matters is why people voted against Corzine.  You are trying to build a correlation is causation fallacy and it doesn&#039;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: mseelingerjr</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator>mseelingerjr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2625</guid>
		<description>If you look at the rhetoric used during the campaign, it is very revealing. Consider the picture of the billboard above. You&#039;ll notice that old BO is front and center in that billboard (which were put up all over the state). You&#039;ll also notice that on the billboard, Obama&#039;s name precedes Corzine&#039;s. In fact, if you didn&#039;t know that Corzine was a gubernatorial candidate, you might think that was an ad for an Obama Presidential campaign, with Corzine as his running mate.  
 
Also consider his speech at Newark on Nov. 1.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2009/11/president_obamas_speech_at_new.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2009/11/preside...&lt;/a&gt; 
You&#039;ll notice that particularly towards the middle and end of the speech, Obama focuses almost entirely on himself and his policies. Corzine is thrown in almost as an afterthought. All accusations of narcissism aside, this illustrates the degree to which Obama inserted himself into this race. In his attempts to drum up support for Corzine, he invoked his own policies and drew parallels between what he was trying to accomplish in Washington and what Corzine would do (and has done) in New Jersey. On the basis of the election returns, these policies and Obama&#039;s agenda were flatly rejected by the people of New Jersey. This was a significant blow to Obama and the Democrats in what should&#039;ve been a slam dunk election for Corzine (who has previously won state-wide elections).  
 
I&#039;m sure that the fact the state&#039;s on the verge of bankruptcy, its people have the highest taxes in the country, and the fact that Corzine and his cronies are all crooks didn&#039;t help him much either. I&#039;m focusing on the Obama-factor in the race. However, it&#039;s not as if New Jersey was some sort of conservative paradise before Corzine took office. The state&#039;s had these problems for a while, and Corzine has been elected under similar conditions before. The significantly different factor in this race was Obama. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at the rhetoric used during the campaign, it is very revealing. Consider the picture of the billboard above. You&#039;ll notice that old BO is front and center in that billboard (which were put up all over the state). You&#039;ll also notice that on the billboard, Obama&#039;s name precedes Corzine&#039;s. In fact, if you didn&#039;t know that Corzine was a gubernatorial candidate, you might think that was an ad for an Obama Presidential campaign, with Corzine as his running mate.  </p>
<p>Also consider his speech at Newark on Nov. 1.  <a href="http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2009/11/president_obamas_speech_at_new.html" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2009/11/preside.." rel="nofollow">http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2009/11/preside..</a>.<br />
You&#039;ll notice that particularly towards the middle and end of the speech, Obama focuses almost entirely on himself and his policies. Corzine is thrown in almost as an afterthought. All accusations of narcissism aside, this illustrates the degree to which Obama inserted himself into this race. In his attempts to drum up support for Corzine, he invoked his own policies and drew parallels between what he was trying to accomplish in Washington and what Corzine would do (and has done) in New Jersey. On the basis of the election returns, these policies and Obama&#039;s agenda were flatly rejected by the people of New Jersey. This was a significant blow to Obama and the Democrats in what should&#039;ve been a slam dunk election for Corzine (who has previously won state-wide elections).  </p>
<p>I&#039;m sure that the fact the state&#039;s on the verge of bankruptcy, its people have the highest taxes in the country, and the fact that Corzine and his cronies are all crooks didn&#039;t help him much either. I&#039;m focusing on the Obama-factor in the race. However, it&#039;s not as if New Jersey was some sort of conservative paradise before Corzine took office. The state&#039;s had these problems for a while, and Corzine has been elected under similar conditions before. The significantly different factor in this race was Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: cwjones</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>cwjones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure they had to have had an election for the NY-23 seat in 2008, which means they elected a republican congressman while voting Democrat. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m pretty sure they had to have had an election for the NY-23 seat in 2008, which means they elected a republican congressman while voting Democrat.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Q</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t matter if Obama carried the district.  The fact is that the district hasn&#039;t been won by a Democrat since the 19th century.  That is historic regardless of what happened in the general election. 
 
I don&#039;t think you understand the English language.  My point and my whole argument is that there is no evidence that Corzine&#039;s loss is due to &quot;disillusionment&quot; with Obama&#039;s policies.  None.  In fact, the only evidence that does exist (exit polls and polls in general) does not substantiate such a claim.  Get it?  I wasn&#039;t arguing that people don&#039;t vote for more than one reason -- only that the premise was an opinion, not a fact and should be presented as such. 
 
In fact, your assertion that I may not understand human nature can be spit right back at the author.  Mr. Seelinger wrote that Corzine&#039;s loss &quot;is evidence of a growing disillusionment with the Obama administration and its policies.&quot;  Well, perhaps he doesn&#039;t understand human nature.  Perhaps people voted for other reasons, like Corzine&#039;s own failures: corruption, property taxes, etc.  So, following your own logic, Seelinger&#039;s assertion is at best conjecture.  *sigh*  You will cut off your nose to spite your face, Mr. Dent.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#039;t matter if Obama carried the district.  The fact is that the district hasn&#039;t been won by a Democrat since the 19th century.  That is historic regardless of what happened in the general election. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t think you understand the English language.  My point and my whole argument is that there is no evidence that Corzine&#039;s loss is due to &quot;disillusionment&quot; with Obama&#039;s policies.  None.  In fact, the only evidence that does exist (exit polls and polls in general) does not substantiate such a claim.  Get it?  I wasn&#039;t arguing that people don&#039;t vote for more than one reason &#8212; only that the premise was an opinion, not a fact and should be presented as such. </p>
<p>In fact, your assertion that I may not understand human nature can be spit right back at the author.  Mr. Seelinger wrote that Corzine&#039;s loss &quot;is evidence of a growing disillusionment with the Obama administration and its policies.&quot;  Well, perhaps he doesn&#039;t understand human nature.  Perhaps people voted for other reasons, like Corzine&#039;s own failures: corruption, property taxes, etc.  So, following your own logic, Seelinger&#039;s assertion is at best conjecture.  *sigh*  You will cut off your nose to spite your face, Mr. Dent.</p>
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		<title>By: adent</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2612</link>
		<dc:creator>adent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2612</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you don&#039;t understand human nature Johnny Q, but it is entirely possible that multiple factors could have influenced how one votes. Normally, one factor doesn&#039;t determine our action, but many factors. As such, it is entirely possible that NJ voters didn&#039;t like Corzine AND Obama&#039;s policies. 
And I just said Obama carried NY-23. Obama is a Democrat. This was in 2008 (within the last few decades). Bill Owens winning is not so historic. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you don&#039;t understand human nature Johnny Q, but it is entirely possible that multiple factors could have influenced how one votes. Normally, one factor doesn&#039;t determine our action, but many factors. As such, it is entirely possible that NJ voters didn&#039;t like Corzine AND Obama&#039;s policies.<br />
And I just said Obama carried NY-23. Obama is a Democrat. This was in 2008 (within the last few decades). Bill Owens winning is not so historic.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Q</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2610</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2610</guid>
		<description>A Democrat hasn&#039;t won NY-23 in decades.  You can levy as many excuses as you want, but it&#039;s still historic.  Sorry.   
 
If it &quot;doesn&#039;t reflect fully on Obama,&quot; how does it equate to disillusionment with his policies?   That doesn&#039;t make a lick of sense, Mr. Dent.  Semantics, semantics, semantics.  That is a large leap in logic.  You still didn&#039;t make an argument.  What constitutes disillusionment?  The tiny percentage of people that said that their vote was a vote against Obama?   
 
Perhaps we could be rational and think of other reasons Corzine lost.  Could you name a few that don&#039;t have to do with Obama?  Could those be the reasons he lost?  Look at the exit polls and polls in general before you jump to conclusions.  They are the only objective data that you could actually use to levy an argument of disillusionment.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Democrat hasn&#039;t won NY-23 in decades.  You can levy as many excuses as you want, but it&#039;s still historic.  Sorry.   </p>
<p>If it &quot;doesn&#039;t reflect fully on Obama,&quot; how does it equate to disillusionment with his policies?   That doesn&#039;t make a lick of sense, Mr. Dent.  Semantics, semantics, semantics.  That is a large leap in logic.  You still didn&#039;t make an argument.  What constitutes disillusionment?  The tiny percentage of people that said that their vote was a vote against Obama?   </p>
<p>Perhaps we could be rational and think of other reasons Corzine lost.  Could you name a few that don&#039;t have to do with Obama?  Could those be the reasons he lost?  Look at the exit polls and polls in general before you jump to conclusions.  They are the only objective data that you could actually use to levy an argument of disillusionment.</p>
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		<title>By: pyelena</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2604</link>
		<dc:creator>pyelena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2604</guid>
		<description>Je suis citoyenne des Etats-Unis, douche. :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Je suis citoyenne des Etats-Unis, douche. <img src='http://crdaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: adent</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2602</link>
		<dc:creator>adent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2602</guid>
		<description>Selon la citoyenne d&#039;ukraine.  elle est une grande jerke. :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Selon la citoyenne d&#039;ukraine.  elle est une grande jerke. <img src='http://crdaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: pyelena</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/11/an-historic-election/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>pyelena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=3619#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>In America we say &quot;A Historic&quot; :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In America we say &quot;A Historic&quot; <img src='http://crdaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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