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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Democratic Protesters Preclude Debate</title>
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	<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/</link>
	<description>The blog of the monthly conservative journal of UNC-Chapel Hill</description>
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		<title>By: Zach Dexter</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-885</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-885</guid>
		<description>&quot;This or that country may be excluded from certain bits of wealth, but that does not mean this or that country is excluded from the Law of those who manage.&quot;

The presumption that some nations are &#039;excluded&#039; from wealth reveals a socialist mindset that is fundamentally unaware of how wealth is generated in this world.  It is generated when stable governments perform the proper functions of government; thus, freedom of action is a necessary condition for wealth.  It is generated when political freedom and stability attracts foreign investment; thus, political freedom is a necessary condition for true, sustained growth.  It is directly generated by individuals pursuing their own self-interested ends.

So now we have generated some wealth.  This does not mean that others have also generated wealth.  We should not put on a blindfold and proclaim that capitalism has destroyed the others.  We should help them achieve the necessary conditions for freedom of private action.

&quot;To return to the situation at hand: fascism is the one of the many banal horrors that comes neatly packaged in the state form. It emerges alongside insurgent desire, and it is either given a space to breath by liberalism (and so called political “conservationism”), where it spreads its radical authoritarian practices, or it and the society that births it are engulfed in a far more terrible destruction of capitalist time and being. As our good friend Adorno says, “there is no way out of entanglement.” &quot;

Of course fascism is a banal horror.  It&#039;s totalitarian.  I&#039;m not going to agree with the assessment that fascism rides on the back of the non-totalitarian ideologies, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This or that country may be excluded from certain bits of wealth, but that does not mean this or that country is excluded from the Law of those who manage.&#8221;</p>
<p>The presumption that some nations are &#8216;excluded&#8217; from wealth reveals a socialist mindset that is fundamentally unaware of how wealth is generated in this world.  It is generated when stable governments perform the proper functions of government; thus, freedom of action is a necessary condition for wealth.  It is generated when political freedom and stability attracts foreign investment; thus, political freedom is a necessary condition for true, sustained growth.  It is directly generated by individuals pursuing their own self-interested ends.</p>
<p>So now we have generated some wealth.  This does not mean that others have also generated wealth.  We should not put on a blindfold and proclaim that capitalism has destroyed the others.  We should help them achieve the necessary conditions for freedom of private action.</p>
<p>&#8220;To return to the situation at hand: fascism is the one of the many banal horrors that comes neatly packaged in the state form. It emerges alongside insurgent desire, and it is either given a space to breath by liberalism (and so called political “conservationism”), where it spreads its radical authoritarian practices, or it and the society that births it are engulfed in a far more terrible destruction of capitalist time and being. As our good friend Adorno says, “there is no way out of entanglement.” &#8221;</p>
<p>Of course fascism is a banal horror.  It&#8217;s totalitarian.  I&#8217;m not going to agree with the assessment that fascism rides on the back of the non-totalitarian ideologies, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Alta Fuoco</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-886</link>
		<dc:creator>Alta Fuoco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-886</guid>
		<description>It here. Its been here, and its as miserable as everything else within the logos of the state form.

&quot;There is no place for us to speak without the sovereignty of capital to clean our words—the outside is at the center and there are only zones of indistinction for us to locate.&quot;

If you want to believe in a world, always untouched, always being made anew, outside of the gates, go ahead and have your dream. The slight difference in policy does not change the very known fact that tomorrow, everywhere, if one wants to eat, one will exchange one&#039;s labor and the time one has left for capital. Even if one wants to be homeless, there is a place in capitalism for that. If one finds oneself as the indigenous hard working folks of wherever, Capital can include you by excluding. The same can be said for the countries that happen to be in the way, or have whatever the shiny thing is that everyone who acts according to the law of value want. Capitalism is a political (practice of ethics, morals, values) economy (ecos: dwelling, home, world and nomos: law, management). Capitalism is the form all human relationships take place in. This or that country may be excluded from certain bits of wealth, but that does not mean this or that country is excluded from the Law of those who manage.

To return to the situation at hand: fascism is the one of the many banal horrors that comes neatly packaged in the state form. It emerges alongside insurgent desire, and it is either given a space to breath by liberalism (and so called political &quot;conservationism&quot;), where it spreads its radical authoritarian practices, or it and the society that births it are engulfed in a far more terrible destruction of capitalist time and being. As our good friend Adorno says, &quot;there is no way out of entanglement.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It here. Its been here, and its as miserable as everything else within the logos of the state form.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is no place for us to speak without the sovereignty of capital to clean our words—the outside is at the center and there are only zones of indistinction for us to locate.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you want to believe in a world, always untouched, always being made anew, outside of the gates, go ahead and have your dream. The slight difference in policy does not change the very known fact that tomorrow, everywhere, if one wants to eat, one will exchange one&#8217;s labor and the time one has left for capital. Even if one wants to be homeless, there is a place in capitalism for that. If one finds oneself as the indigenous hard working folks of wherever, Capital can include you by excluding. The same can be said for the countries that happen to be in the way, or have whatever the shiny thing is that everyone who acts according to the law of value want. Capitalism is a political (practice of ethics, morals, values) economy (ecos: dwelling, home, world and nomos: law, management). Capitalism is the form all human relationships take place in. This or that country may be excluded from certain bits of wealth, but that does not mean this or that country is excluded from the Law of those who manage.</p>
<p>To return to the situation at hand: fascism is the one of the many banal horrors that comes neatly packaged in the state form. It emerges alongside insurgent desire, and it is either given a space to breath by liberalism (and so called political &#8220;conservationism&#8221;), where it spreads its radical authoritarian practices, or it and the society that births it are engulfed in a far more terrible destruction of capitalist time and being. As our good friend Adorno says, &#8220;there is no way out of entanglement.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Dexter</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-890</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-890</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re just nationalizing economies because they are ignorant of the actual problem.  Nobody promised utopia.  But economic and political freedom are necessary conditions for prosperity for all.

To say that anyone &quot;achieved&quot; a capitalist world (world?  I don&#039;t think one can seriously apply such a claim to even the United States) is so ignorant of the fiscal and monetary policies of the governments of the 19th and 20th and 21st centuries that I feel I would max out the blog character limit citing examples of the government interventions that moved us backwards, towards the feudalism of the late first and early second millennium AD, over these three centuries.

It is utterly false to claim that everyone has been included in a democratic and capitalistic world.  Zimbabwe?  Cuba?  China?  Europe (see govn&#039;t expenditures as a percentage of GDP)?  Mexico (see federal government failing to fulfill one of its only legitimate duties:  protecting citizens from the positive coercion of others)?  You say that we have achieved a democratic and capitalist world society.  But any serious person recognizes that much progress is left to be made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re just nationalizing economies because they are ignorant of the actual problem.  Nobody promised utopia.  But economic and political freedom are necessary conditions for prosperity for all.</p>
<p>To say that anyone &#8220;achieved&#8221; a capitalist world (world?  I don&#8217;t think one can seriously apply such a claim to even the United States) is so ignorant of the fiscal and monetary policies of the governments of the 19th and 20th and 21st centuries that I feel I would max out the blog character limit citing examples of the government interventions that moved us backwards, towards the feudalism of the late first and early second millennium AD, over these three centuries.</p>
<p>It is utterly false to claim that everyone has been included in a democratic and capitalistic world.  Zimbabwe?  Cuba?  China?  Europe (see govn&#8217;t expenditures as a percentage of GDP)?  Mexico (see federal government failing to fulfill one of its only legitimate duties:  protecting citizens from the positive coercion of others)?  You say that we have achieved a democratic and capitalist world society.  But any serious person recognizes that much progress is left to be made.</p>
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		<title>By: Alta Fuoco</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-889</link>
		<dc:creator>Alta Fuoco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-889</guid>
		<description>Admin, perhaps you&#039;ve been asleep for the last 30-50 years, but there is a reason that governments, who were previously experimenting with liberal and neoliberal economics (global capitalism), are now nationalizing economies. This is not because the liberals have taken over; nor has it been very different considering who was in political power. (see the meaningless differences of global economic policy from Reagan to Clinton to Bush) There was this project, an extension of the early logic of liberalism, to include everyone in a capitalist and democratic world. It was achieved, and it has failed to bring forth the promised land, and now no one knows how to save us. Do you think politicians could run so successfully on the &quot;whatever-slogan&quot; if we weren&#039;t totally fucked?

Although I think we&#039;re departing into a bit deeper water than our lil&#039; fascist spectacle might appreciate, it would be foolish to not recognize how these events are related.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admin, perhaps you&#8217;ve been asleep for the last 30-50 years, but there is a reason that governments, who were previously experimenting with liberal and neoliberal economics (global capitalism), are now nationalizing economies. This is not because the liberals have taken over; nor has it been very different considering who was in political power. (see the meaningless differences of global economic policy from Reagan to Clinton to Bush) There was this project, an extension of the early logic of liberalism, to include everyone in a capitalist and democratic world. It was achieved, and it has failed to bring forth the promised land, and now no one knows how to save us. Do you think politicians could run so successfully on the &#8220;whatever-slogan&#8221; if we weren&#8217;t totally fucked?</p>
<p>Although I think we&#8217;re departing into a bit deeper water than our lil&#8217; fascist spectacle might appreciate, it would be foolish to not recognize how these events are related.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Dexter</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-888</guid>
		<description>I would call the protesters radical socialists (they nearly admit to such in their mission statement).  There is no nationalist component to their protesting.

Considering that I did not personally use the word &quot;fascist&quot; in my original post, I am having a bit of a hard time seeing how I claimed that the protesters are fascists (or that the YWC aren&#039;t, though they are not national socialists, at least according to their mission statement).

&quot;Just how exactly is capital not at its limits? It would appear that economies of scale certainly seem limited.&quot;

Because governments control the capital.  Governments make decisions about price signals that with far less information than is available to individual parties to transactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would call the protesters radical socialists (they nearly admit to such in their mission statement).  There is no nationalist component to their protesting.</p>
<p>Considering that I did not personally use the word &#8220;fascist&#8221; in my original post, I am having a bit of a hard time seeing how I claimed that the protesters are fascists (or that the YWC aren&#8217;t, though they are not national socialists, at least according to their mission statement).</p>
<p>&#8220;Just how exactly is capital not at its limits? It would appear that economies of scale certainly seem limited.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because governments control the capital.  Governments make decisions about price signals that with far less information than is available to individual parties to transactions.</p>
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		<title>By: aninnymouse</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>aninnymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-897</guid>
		<description>http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/extremism.report/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/extremism.report/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/extremism.report/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zach Dexter</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Socialism, in the modern sense of the welfare state or in the Cold War-era sense of government control over the means of production, is not fascism.  Fascism comes in several varieties, but in the most important variety, you have private ownership of industry but government control of industry (from an economic standpoint) and a national-socialist ideology (from a political standpoint).

Nowhere did I say that socialism equals fascism.  But both fascism and socialism are misguided collectivist ideologies, and fascism&#039;s leaders and ideas were the result of a merge of socialist and nationalist ideologies.  Early fascists fought to control the same political space on the left.

Benito Mussolini lead the socialists in Italy.  Adolf Hitler led the National Socialist German Workers Party in Germany.  Neither leaders were socialists in name only - both pursued socialist economic ends and used corporatist, anti-competitive means to get there.  Both constantly violated classical-liberal principles.

Your &quot;mental midget&quot; charge is not even worthy of response. . . you commit an ad hominem logical fallacy (again) in an attempt to discredit an entire body of work which you may not even have read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Socialism, in the modern sense of the welfare state or in the Cold War-era sense of government control over the means of production, is not fascism.  Fascism comes in several varieties, but in the most important variety, you have private ownership of industry but government control of industry (from an economic standpoint) and a national-socialist ideology (from a political standpoint).</p>
<p>Nowhere did I say that socialism equals fascism.  But both fascism and socialism are misguided collectivist ideologies, and fascism&#8217;s leaders and ideas were the result of a merge of socialist and nationalist ideologies.  Early fascists fought to control the same political space on the left.</p>
<p>Benito Mussolini lead the socialists in Italy.  Adolf Hitler led the National Socialist German Workers Party in Germany.  Neither leaders were socialists in name only &#8211; both pursued socialist economic ends and used corporatist, anti-competitive means to get there.  Both constantly violated classical-liberal principles.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;mental midget&#8221; charge is not even worthy of response. . . you commit an ad hominem logical fallacy (again) in an attempt to discredit an entire body of work which you may not even have read.</p>
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		<title>By: *</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-895</guid>
		<description>Zach, the second part of that wasn&#039;t directed at you, only the first, and I stand behind its sentiment.  Conflating fascism and socialism is the domain of mental midgets like Jonah Goldberg and Pamela Geller.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, the second part of that wasn&#8217;t directed at you, only the first, and I stand behind its sentiment.  Conflating fascism and socialism is the domain of mental midgets like Jonah Goldberg and Pamela Geller.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Dexter</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-894</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-894</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ll look for your protest the next time Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan or some other black racist comes to campus.&quot;

Although we attended the protest yesterday, we most certainly did not participate.  We do not march around and whine and threaten physical force.  We engage people&#039;s ideas.  We would (and regularly do) challenge the poorly constructed ideas of race-baiters on the political left.

&quot;Zach, go back to school and learn the difference between fascism and socialism.&quot;

I would remind you that school is also useful for learning how to communicate with other people.  One crucial skill in such communication is the transmission of logical arguments and the relegation of ad hominem attacks to the trash bin.

&quot;Also, it is ridiculous to assert that the protesters’ actions represent an equivalence to, or are somehow worse than the actions of those who advocate for white supremacy.&quot;

I said that the protesters&#039; actions (violence) were worse than Tancredo&#039;s (attempting to speak).  Respond with an intelligent comment that logically rebuts my argument if you are so offended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ll look for your protest the next time Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan or some other black racist comes to campus.&#8221;</p>
<p>Although we attended the protest yesterday, we most certainly did not participate.  We do not march around and whine and threaten physical force.  We engage people&#8217;s ideas.  We would (and regularly do) challenge the poorly constructed ideas of race-baiters on the political left.</p>
<p>&#8220;Zach, go back to school and learn the difference between fascism and socialism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would remind you that school is also useful for learning how to communicate with other people.  One crucial skill in such communication is the transmission of logical arguments and the relegation of ad hominem attacks to the trash bin.</p>
<p>&#8220;Also, it is ridiculous to assert that the protesters’ actions represent an equivalence to, or are somehow worse than the actions of those who advocate for white supremacy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I said that the protesters&#8217; actions (violence) were worse than Tancredo&#8217;s (attempting to speak).  Respond with an intelligent comment that logically rebuts my argument if you are so offended.</p>
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		<title>By: *</title>
		<link>http://crdaily.com/2009/04/anti-democratic-protesters-preclude-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-893</link>
		<dc:creator>*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crdaily.com/?p=1690#comment-893</guid>
		<description>Zach, go back to school and learn the difference between fascism and socialism.

Also, it is ridiculous to assert that the protesters&#039; actions represent an equivalence to, or are somehow worse than the actions of those who advocate for white supremacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, go back to school and learn the difference between fascism and socialism.</p>
<p>Also, it is ridiculous to assert that the protesters&#8217; actions represent an equivalence to, or are somehow worse than the actions of those who advocate for white supremacy.</p>
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